Say something or Mind my own beeswax?

[smalltowngirl]

Hi friends,

I'm hoping the glitter parents can weigh in on this one. I have one brother, who has two kids, both 7 and under. Ever since my brother has been a parent, I'd had a really hard time being around him for more than a day or two because I disagree with how he treats his kids.

My brother and I are not very close, but not estranged either. (We live far apart...about 13 hours.) My brother is not physically abusive, does not have substance abuse problems, but I think more than anything, lacks basic parenting skills and has ZERO patience with his children.

The main thing is that he yells. This makes it really hard for me to be around him, and it makes it REALLY hard for me to hold my tongue and tell him not to be such a jerk. His first instinct is to roar. I hate it, and I'm beginning to really dislike him because of it.

I have no "pull" because I don't have kids myself. My mom (who lives with them) would never say anything to him because she avoids conflict at all costs. So, should I try to say something to him, probably in an email, or just let it go? I feel like I'm the only one willing to put a wrench between my relationship with him and say something. I'm guessing he won't give a shit what I say, b/c we disagree on so many things already (its the classic he's a fox news watching republican and I'm a bleeding heart liberal). His wife is of the mindset that "he's the man", but I have a really good relationship with her, so I don't want to mess that up, either.

UGH.

[LooseyMama]

Oy. Given that I just posted about Mercury Retrograde and its negative impact upon communications, I, personally, would wait out three weeks before even deciding whether to make this contact with him. Another three weeks isn't going to kill the kids, it sounds like, and it could make a serious difference in how well the message might be received.

Also, I don't know about him and his family, but in general, the holiday season tends to be way more stressful than the rest of the year, so I would try not to get into a confrontation with him about it now, even without Mercury's influence. I don't think that's about me being conflict-averse (because I'm usually not!), but just being careful about timing.

Normally, I'd suggest that in the meantime, you consciously act as a great role model for the kiddos, but since you're so far away, and presumably don't spend that much time with them, that's not an option, either. I guess you could send them books and stories on CD that are quieter, gentler, but I don't know if the wife would read them to the kids, anyway, so maybe that's not great advice, either. I know my brother's wife is, IMO, not as gentle with their kids as I'd like ... over time, she's noticed that my gentler way can often yield good results, so she's become more open to my perspectives sometimes ... just *sometimes* (partly because of her mindset in the moment and partly because, honestly, my way doesn't always work with her kids). Maybe the moral of that message is to watch for a teachable moment? Or maybe try to adopt the mindset of "they chose their circumstances" and let it go.

I know that right now, I'm not terribly optimistic for your situation. But that might be me not being optimistic, not necessarily the best advice.
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[caropop]

I have similar feelings about the way my sister is with my nephews sometimes. I know that were I to say anything to her, it would be a big disaster as she is very defensive anytime she's criticized. I ignore her to the best I can and when she's having a moment of frustration that seems out of proportion or whatever, I just try to redirect--change the topic, ask the kids a question about something unrelated, or think of something to do. One thing I do like about her boyfriend is that he recognizes her lack of patience and quickness to irritate and reacts in a similar way. The boys react better to something that diffuses the situation without actually addressing it than they do to two adults getting into it with each other (not that you would bring it up in front of them, but it's tempting sometimes to point it out when it's happening). My sister will also usually step back and calm down pretty quickly with the redirection, too.
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[smalltowngirl]

[bookselves]

smalltowngirl, I think that what you're doing already is just right. If you do initiate conversations like this, I might do it in person, rather than by email.

Even well-intentioned criticism is hard to get that way, I find. I might approach him in person, privately, following a specific situation, and start a conversation about what is working for him about the way he acts - obviously he is getting some positive reinforcement from it, so... You could say something like, "I notice that resolving x situation by doing y made all of you pretty stressed out. Have you noticed that?" and then just see what he says.

Basically, I would frame it in such a way that you are talking about supporting him as a person and parent, not warning him that he is raising his kids wrong, you know?

I think that in situations like this, it's good to remember to acknowledge that
a) you're not a parent & you don't live there all the time, and
b) maybe he has thought about this/is trying to work on it/notices the same things you do, but hasn't been able to figure out a lasting solution. This might be an area where he feels self-conscious & crappy about his actions, so you never know...

Additionally, I think kids like it when you try your best to have a personal, private relationship with them. Would they wanna be penpals with you? I know the situation isn't identical, but it still would be kinda rad for them to have a model for caring, considerate conversation with other adults.
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[Jzane]

I don't know if I would confront him in a "Your parenting disturbs me!" type of way, but is there a way you can mildly speak up while it's happening? For instance, if he tells his kid to shut up and you're sitting right there, could you say "Wow, shut up is kind of harsh, don't you think?" and see if he either lashes out at you, or listens and kind of cuts it back. That might tell you if he would be receptive to listening to more. If he does lash out in an "It's none of your business how I talk to my kids!" kind of way, you can easily say "Sorry, it's just family time, I was hoping it could be more peaceful."

7 and younger is pretty young, but I think it's old enough for the kids to understand that you are sticking up for them. I think hearing another adult say that they shouldn't be told to shut up can only be a positive thing, even if your brother does get mad. I think it's fine for you to tell your niece/nephew "I don't think shut up is a very nice thing to say, Daddy must be very frustrated right now." And I think it's fine to say that in front of your brother. At the very least, maybe they'll get the idea that it's not normal.
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SwagBucks

[Nemesis]

[Crumb]

[Jzane]

I don't see it as undermining a parent if the parent is being verbally abusive. smalltowngirl has said that he is not only saying these things, he's yelling them.

I agree with not undermining parenting decisions if it's about basic child-rearing principles- too long in Time Out, not making them finish their dinner, don't let them climb on the furniture, etc. But yelling "shut up" in a small child's face is not parenting, it's abuse, and I don't see anything wrong with speaking up, even if the child happens to be sitting there. Don't like it, tough, don't scream at your child.
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SwagBucks

[Crumb]

Telling a kid to shut up isn't verbal abuse. It's mean and it's nowhere near ok, and it's not stellar parenting but it's not abusive.

Telling a child "Daddy is wrong" immediately after the action occurred and in front of the father, is absolutely undermining his authority. And tht's not going to work out well for anyone. Modeling the right kind of behavior - i.e., smalltowngirl's example of how she handled her neice's interruption - and making sure that YOU talk to thenkids gently and respectfully is a much better approach. Nothing that she's said makes it sound like this guy is abusing his kids or putting them in harm's way, and absent clear evidence that a parent is doing so, it's really not anyone's place (other than the co-parents') to interfere in someone else's parenting choices. Expressing your concern to the parent is one thing, but getting directly involved, unless you're asked to, is not right.

[smalltowngirl]

[Jzane]